#83100: "My suggestion is to allow Troyes players to choose a setup without the Archer"
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细节描述
• 如果有的话,请将你在屏幕上所看到的错误信息粘贴出来.
Troyes has the potential to be a perfectly balanced game that allows for a variety of strategies. One can plan ahead to collect money, influence, citizens in building and such - and good planning is usually rewarded through the action cards. However, there is one exception - the Archer. You can activate it 4-5 times and score multiple points - or activate it 9 times and place ONE cube, if not none! Once that happens, one's game is completely ruined, there is no recovery option after wasting so many resources. Staying away from the Archer doesn't help either because if another player does go there and is _lucky_ (nothing to do with being good!), their advantage is so big that the result is the same: no way to recover.
I understand that some people might care less about fairness - and more about adrenalin. So, they don't mind if a great strategic game is turned into a game of chance. There are others, though - those who do care about the actual quality of the game. I am one of them, and I've tried to find a solution. The only one available seems to be to abandon/restart the game every time the Archer shows up. My group did that for a while, then most players got tired of it (on one occasion we had to restart FIVE TIMES before we finally managed to get rid of that card). So, we can't play Troyes online anymore :-(
My suggestion/request is simple: be fair to different people, not just those of a particular opinion. Multiple games allow for variants (play with/without such-and-such card, among others). This simple change would allow everybody to actually enjoy the game, not half-suffer through it.
Thank you!• 请说明你当时想做什么,你做了什么,然后发生了什么
• 你的浏览器是什么?
Google Chrome v110
• 请以英文复制/粘贴显示文字而非你的语言。 如果你有这个系统漏洞发生时的屏幕截图(画质不要太差),你可以使用Imgur.com来把它上传到网络,然后将链接复制/粘贴到这里来。
Troyes has the potential to be a perfectly balanced game that allows for a variety of strategies. One can plan ahead to collect money, influence, citizens in building and such - and good planning is usually rewarded through the action cards. However, there is one exception - the Archer. You can activate it 4-5 times and score multiple points - or activate it 9 times and place ONE cube, if not none! Once that happens, one's game is completely ruined, there is no recovery option after wasting so many resources. Staying away from the Archer doesn't help either because if another player does go there and is _lucky_ (nothing to do with being good!), their advantage is so big that the result is the same: no way to recover.
I understand that some people might care less about fairness - and more about adrenalin. So, they don't mind if a great strategic game is turned into a game of chance. There are others, though - those who do care about the actual quality of the game. I am one of them, and I've tried to find a solution. The only one available seems to be to abandon/restart the game every time the Archer shows up. My group did that for a while, then most players got tired of it (on one occasion we had to restart FIVE TIMES before we finally managed to get rid of that card). So, we can't play Troyes online anymore :-(
My suggestion/request is simple: be fair to different people, not just those of a particular opinion. Multiple games allow for variants (play with/without such-and-such card, among others). This simple change would allow everybody to actually enjoy the game, not half-suffer through it.
Thank you!• 这段文本在翻译系统中吗?如果存在,它被翻译是否已超过二十四小时了?
• 你的浏览器是什么?
Google Chrome v110
• 请简明而精确地解释您的建议,以便让人明白您想表达的意思。
Troyes has the potential to be a perfectly balanced game that allows for a variety of strategies. One can plan ahead to collect money, influence, citizens in building and such - and good planning is usually rewarded through the action cards. However, there is one exception - the Archer. You can activate it 4-5 times and score multiple points - or activate it 9 times and place ONE cube, if not none! Once that happens, one's game is completely ruined, there is no recovery option after wasting so many resources. Staying away from the Archer doesn't help either because if another player does go there and is _lucky_ (nothing to do with being good!), their advantage is so big that the result is the same: no way to recover.
I understand that some people might care less about fairness - and more about adrenalin. So, they don't mind if a great strategic game is turned into a game of chance. There are others, though - those who do care about the actual quality of the game. I am one of them, and I've tried to find a solution. The only one available seems to be to abandon/restart the game every time the Archer shows up. My group did that for a while, then most players got tired of it (on one occasion we had to restart FIVE TIMES before we finally managed to get rid of that card). So, we can't play Troyes online anymore :-(
My suggestion/request is simple: be fair to different people, not just those of a particular opinion. Multiple games allow for variants (play with/without such-and-such card, among others). This simple change would allow everybody to actually enjoy the game, not half-suffer through it.
Thank you!• 你的浏览器是什么?
Google Chrome v110
• 当你被封锁的时候,屏幕上出现了些什么呢?(空白的屏幕?部分游戏平台画面?错误的信息?)
Troyes has the potential to be a perfectly balanced game that allows for a variety of strategies. One can plan ahead to collect money, influence, citizens in building and such - and good planning is usually rewarded through the action cards. However, there is one exception - the Archer. You can activate it 4-5 times and score multiple points - or activate it 9 times and place ONE cube, if not none! Once that happens, one's game is completely ruined, there is no recovery option after wasting so many resources. Staying away from the Archer doesn't help either because if another player does go there and is _lucky_ (nothing to do with being good!), their advantage is so big that the result is the same: no way to recover.
I understand that some people might care less about fairness - and more about adrenalin. So, they don't mind if a great strategic game is turned into a game of chance. There are others, though - those who do care about the actual quality of the game. I am one of them, and I've tried to find a solution. The only one available seems to be to abandon/restart the game every time the Archer shows up. My group did that for a while, then most players got tired of it (on one occasion we had to restart FIVE TIMES before we finally managed to get rid of that card). So, we can't play Troyes online anymore :-(
My suggestion/request is simple: be fair to different people, not just those of a particular opinion. Multiple games allow for variants (play with/without such-and-such card, among others). This simple change would allow everybody to actually enjoy the game, not half-suffer through it.
Thank you!• 你的浏览器是什么?
Google Chrome v110
• 哪个规则没有被BGA的设计小组写进游戏里?
Troyes has the potential to be a perfectly balanced game that allows for a variety of strategies. One can plan ahead to collect money, influence, citizens in building and such - and good planning is usually rewarded through the action cards. However, there is one exception - the Archer. You can activate it 4-5 times and score multiple points - or activate it 9 times and place ONE cube, if not none! Once that happens, one's game is completely ruined, there is no recovery option after wasting so many resources. Staying away from the Archer doesn't help either because if another player does go there and is _lucky_ (nothing to do with being good!), their advantage is so big that the result is the same: no way to recover.
I understand that some people might care less about fairness - and more about adrenalin. So, they don't mind if a great strategic game is turned into a game of chance. There are others, though - those who do care about the actual quality of the game. I am one of them, and I've tried to find a solution. The only one available seems to be to abandon/restart the game every time the Archer shows up. My group did that for a while, then most players got tired of it (on one occasion we had to restart FIVE TIMES before we finally managed to get rid of that card). So, we can't play Troyes online anymore :-(
My suggestion/request is simple: be fair to different people, not just those of a particular opinion. Multiple games allow for variants (play with/without such-and-such card, among others). This simple change would allow everybody to actually enjoy the game, not half-suffer through it.
Thank you!• 在游戏回放中,是否有不符合游戏规则的地方?如果有的话,请问是在哪一步呢?
• 你的浏览器是什么?
Google Chrome v110
• 你当时是想做哪个游戏行动?
Troyes has the potential to be a perfectly balanced game that allows for a variety of strategies. One can plan ahead to collect money, influence, citizens in building and such - and good planning is usually rewarded through the action cards. However, there is one exception - the Archer. You can activate it 4-5 times and score multiple points - or activate it 9 times and place ONE cube, if not none! Once that happens, one's game is completely ruined, there is no recovery option after wasting so many resources. Staying away from the Archer doesn't help either because if another player does go there and is _lucky_ (nothing to do with being good!), their advantage is so big that the result is the same: no way to recover.
I understand that some people might care less about fairness - and more about adrenalin. So, they don't mind if a great strategic game is turned into a game of chance. There are others, though - those who do care about the actual quality of the game. I am one of them, and I've tried to find a solution. The only one available seems to be to abandon/restart the game every time the Archer shows up. My group did that for a while, then most players got tired of it (on one occasion we had to restart FIVE TIMES before we finally managed to get rid of that card). So, we can't play Troyes online anymore :-(
My suggestion/request is simple: be fair to different people, not just those of a particular opinion. Multiple games allow for variants (play with/without such-and-such card, among others). This simple change would allow everybody to actually enjoy the game, not half-suffer through it.
Thank you!• 你在想做什么的时候,触发了这个游戏选项?
• 当你想这么做时,发生了什么事(错误信息,游戏状态信息,......)?
• 你的浏览器是什么?
Google Chrome v110
• 请问这个问题发生在游戏的哪个阶段(当前的游戏说明是什么)?
Troyes has the potential to be a perfectly balanced game that allows for a variety of strategies. One can plan ahead to collect money, influence, citizens in building and such - and good planning is usually rewarded through the action cards. However, there is one exception - the Archer. You can activate it 4-5 times and score multiple points - or activate it 9 times and place ONE cube, if not none! Once that happens, one's game is completely ruined, there is no recovery option after wasting so many resources. Staying away from the Archer doesn't help either because if another player does go there and is _lucky_ (nothing to do with being good!), their advantage is so big that the result is the same: no way to recover.
I understand that some people might care less about fairness - and more about adrenalin. So, they don't mind if a great strategic game is turned into a game of chance. There are others, though - those who do care about the actual quality of the game. I am one of them, and I've tried to find a solution. The only one available seems to be to abandon/restart the game every time the Archer shows up. My group did that for a while, then most players got tired of it (on one occasion we had to restart FIVE TIMES before we finally managed to get rid of that card). So, we can't play Troyes online anymore :-(
My suggestion/request is simple: be fair to different people, not just those of a particular opinion. Multiple games allow for variants (play with/without such-and-such card, among others). This simple change would allow everybody to actually enjoy the game, not half-suffer through it.
Thank you!• 当你想进行一个游戏行动时,发生了什么事(错误信息,游戏状态信息,......)?
• 你的浏览器是什么?
Google Chrome v110
• 请描述一下显示画面上面的问题。 如果你有这个系统漏洞发生时的屏幕截图(画质不要太差),你可以使用Imgur.com来把它上传到网络,然后将链接复制/粘贴到这里来。
Troyes has the potential to be a perfectly balanced game that allows for a variety of strategies. One can plan ahead to collect money, influence, citizens in building and such - and good planning is usually rewarded through the action cards. However, there is one exception - the Archer. You can activate it 4-5 times and score multiple points - or activate it 9 times and place ONE cube, if not none! Once that happens, one's game is completely ruined, there is no recovery option after wasting so many resources. Staying away from the Archer doesn't help either because if another player does go there and is _lucky_ (nothing to do with being good!), their advantage is so big that the result is the same: no way to recover.
I understand that some people might care less about fairness - and more about adrenalin. So, they don't mind if a great strategic game is turned into a game of chance. There are others, though - those who do care about the actual quality of the game. I am one of them, and I've tried to find a solution. The only one available seems to be to abandon/restart the game every time the Archer shows up. My group did that for a while, then most players got tired of it (on one occasion we had to restart FIVE TIMES before we finally managed to get rid of that card). So, we can't play Troyes online anymore :-(
My suggestion/request is simple: be fair to different people, not just those of a particular opinion. Multiple games allow for variants (play with/without such-and-such card, among others). This simple change would allow everybody to actually enjoy the game, not half-suffer through it.
Thank you!• 你的浏览器是什么?
Google Chrome v110
• 请以英文复制/粘贴显示文字而非你的语言。 如果你有这个系统漏洞发生时的屏幕截图(画质不要太差),你可以使用Imgur.com来把它上传到网络,然后将链接复制/粘贴到这里来。
Troyes has the potential to be a perfectly balanced game that allows for a variety of strategies. One can plan ahead to collect money, influence, citizens in building and such - and good planning is usually rewarded through the action cards. However, there is one exception - the Archer. You can activate it 4-5 times and score multiple points - or activate it 9 times and place ONE cube, if not none! Once that happens, one's game is completely ruined, there is no recovery option after wasting so many resources. Staying away from the Archer doesn't help either because if another player does go there and is _lucky_ (nothing to do with being good!), their advantage is so big that the result is the same: no way to recover.
I understand that some people might care less about fairness - and more about adrenalin. So, they don't mind if a great strategic game is turned into a game of chance. There are others, though - those who do care about the actual quality of the game. I am one of them, and I've tried to find a solution. The only one available seems to be to abandon/restart the game every time the Archer shows up. My group did that for a while, then most players got tired of it (on one occasion we had to restart FIVE TIMES before we finally managed to get rid of that card). So, we can't play Troyes online anymore :-(
My suggestion/request is simple: be fair to different people, not just those of a particular opinion. Multiple games allow for variants (play with/without such-and-such card, among others). This simple change would allow everybody to actually enjoy the game, not half-suffer through it.
Thank you!• 这段文本在翻译系统中吗?如果存在,它被翻译是否已超过二十四小时了?
• 你的浏览器是什么?
Google Chrome v110
• 请简明而精确地解释您的建议,以便让人明白您想表达的意思。
Troyes has the potential to be a perfectly balanced game that allows for a variety of strategies. One can plan ahead to collect money, influence, citizens in building and such - and good planning is usually rewarded through the action cards. However, there is one exception - the Archer. You can activate it 4-5 times and score multiple points - or activate it 9 times and place ONE cube, if not none! Once that happens, one's game is completely ruined, there is no recovery option after wasting so many resources. Staying away from the Archer doesn't help either because if another player does go there and is _lucky_ (nothing to do with being good!), their advantage is so big that the result is the same: no way to recover.
I understand that some people might care less about fairness - and more about adrenalin. So, they don't mind if a great strategic game is turned into a game of chance. There are others, though - those who do care about the actual quality of the game. I am one of them, and I've tried to find a solution. The only one available seems to be to abandon/restart the game every time the Archer shows up. My group did that for a while, then most players got tired of it (on one occasion we had to restart FIVE TIMES before we finally managed to get rid of that card). So, we can't play Troyes online anymore :-(
My suggestion/request is simple: be fair to different people, not just those of a particular opinion. Multiple games allow for variants (play with/without such-and-such card, among others). This simple change would allow everybody to actually enjoy the game, not half-suffer through it.
Thank you!• 你的浏览器是什么?
Google Chrome v110
案件历史
BGA really needs to allow downvotes as well, particularly if developers are going to use the number of upvotes as any sort of indication of popularity/support.
In lieu of a downvote button, however, I will instead dispute the substance of and assumptions behind the critiques and appeals put forth by the poster of this suggestion:
> I understand that some people might care less about fairness - and more about adrenalin.
This is a false dichotomy. Some of us care about playing the game that the /designers/ designed, rather than some derivative that others wish to hack into being by adding or removing rules that they like or don't like, respectively.
> So, they don't mind if a great strategic game is turned into a game of chance.
You know who else doesn't mind? The designers. They published this game with the Archer as one of the possible cards that could appear in any given game. That tells me that they're perfectly fine with this level of chance in the game.
You're free to dislike that if you so choose, but don't pretend that you're somehow the only one who cares about fairness or the "greatness" of this game. Why should your opinion count for more than that of the designers?
> There are others, though - those who do care about the actual quality of the game. I am one of them, and I've tried to find a solution.
If you don't like the Archer, just say so and be done with it; but skip the cloak of nobility that you're pretending to wear in order to justify your preferred house rule. Why do you think that you care about this game's quality more than its designers do?
> My suggestion/request is simple: be fair to different people, not just those of a particular opinion.
What definition of "fair" and "fairness" are you using that would let you modify someone else's creation? If I don't like the ending to a book or a movie, what definition of "fairness" would allow me to rewrite that ending? There is none.
One is free to read a book, watch a movie, or play a game created by someone else and to like it or dislike it according to one's own criteria–but not to /modify/ it, certainly not under a vague and ultimately self-serving claim of "fairness".
> So, we can't play Troyes online anymore :-(
Yes, you can. You just choose not to. Which you're free to do, of course. But don't present this choice as something that's forced upon you.
> Multiple games allow for variants (play with/without such-and-such card, among others).
Multiple games do allow that, yes, but this game is not one of them, and there's nothing in its rules that remotely suggests that it is.
It's important to understand that games are individual creations, such that the rules for one have precisely zero bearing on any other—just as how the premise of a book or movie does not mean that some other book or movie will share that same premise, or that a character from one fictional universe will exist in some other universe.
Some additional thoughts: banning the Archer will not automatically turn Troyes into "a great strategic game" that is somehow not also "a game of chance", to borrow your phrasing. How do I know? Because the game will still have the a) the rolling of dice in the Assemble Workforce phase of each round (you know, that phase of each round where /all/ dice are rolled) and b) the rerolling of dice via influence.
Unless you also plan to house-rule these aspects of the game (no, I'm not trying to give you ideas), it will be still possible to have disproportionately beneficial or detrimental rolls that could make or break one's game.
I myself experienced the latter in a recent in-person game where I influenced-rolled a 1 into a 1... and another 1... and another... five consecutive times. No Archer involved here, and therefore your proposed house rule would have made zero impact–but this was certainly a situation where there was "no way to recover". I cursed my luck, to be sure, but I'm not using that experience as an excuse to modify someone else's game.
Luck is inherent to Troyes. Accept it, or find a different game that has an amount of luck within tolerances that you can handle, but again, don't distort someone else's creation in a misguided attempt to fit your vision of "a perfectly balanced game".
To start with, you made hundredths of suggestions to modify someone else's games - it's just that those suggestions suited _you_. As for your luck, there is a rule in Troyes that you can flip your dice by paying 4 influence - and there are multiple ways to collect influence. So, you can plan for it. A good player can, in any case. And that's exactly what I meant by providing for every eventuality The Archer is the only card that gives no such option.
As for the rest... I've scrolled your tirade, and oh my - you love your imperative mood! So many "do" and "don't" combined with telling a complete stranger what and how he should enjoy. You've taken time and made quite an effort not to support a fellow player but to oppose a harmless change that doesn't hurt anybody, while helping some to enjoy the game more. Are you indeed from Canada? We, Canadians, are usually a much friendlier and nicer lot...
That said, I wonder if putting someone down in public and bossing around helps you to feel important, thus making you feel better about yourself, in general... If so, my heart goes out to you. I would rather not play Troyes online than have to treat people like you do, just to be able to bear myself...
Furthermore, to activate it that many times you're burning through some very expensive and powerful dice, which is a second trade off you have to make when using the Archer.
I'd argue a far more powerful card that come into play is the Pilgrimage. 7 points of any dice colour to gain VPS? Often the much better choice.
增加一些新内容到这篇报告
- 其他的游戏桌 ID / 移动 ID
- 按 F5 是否解决了这个问题?
- 问题是否发生了好几次?还是每次都发生?还是时好时坏?
- 如果你有这个系统漏洞发生时的屏幕截图(画质不要太差),你可以使用Imgur.com来把它上传到网络,然后将链接复制/粘贴到这里来。