Just a suggestion

If I'm playing with friends, sometimes we agree not to buy those cards. I bet some players would like this option when playing with strangers too.

Agree completely! These two cards in particular are not in the spirit of this game anyway--my friends always eliminate these cards from play. Have this in the starting options just like light speed.

Yes, we also exclude those cards when playing the game. Would be great as an option.

+1 for the lose points card... Perhaps make it an option as was done with the 6 Gold in Dice Forge.

But I like the instant win card. It fails most of the time and adds some nice tension. For me, this *does* feel like the game.

But having just one "take that" card - and a powerful one at that - is pretty terrible.

Agree. The destroyer makes it less fun to play, especially when purchased early on. An option to remove it would be welcomed. Thanks for considering!

Happy to discuss this. I don't see a need for removing either card. Both cards require that you play defensively and/or alter your strategy. For example, if a player has the "exchange this card with any other card" and the "You Win" card is available for purchase, one of the other players needs to buy the "You Win" card before the player with the exchange card can buy it. The "lose points" card - you can alter your strategy to go for larger point earnings to try to out-pace that card, especially since that card tends to slow down the game. In my experience, the player with that card does not always win.

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It would be just an option. The main issue is the Gordon card. The other one isn’t too bad.

The problem is that it is the only negative point card in the game. The whole strategy of the game can be destroyed by whoever manages to buy it first. Some players build points slowly, gaining a point or two every round. Some play by gaining large points. If the Gordon is kept it forces everyone to ensure their point gains are large enough to overcome it. I’ve seen games played where players were well into double digits and had a good engine going only for the Gordon to show up and almost reset everyone’s score to zero. If it shows up early it’s a game killer.

We just all agree to never buy it, but then it leaves an unused card in the mix. All my friends and I that do own it, we don’t even let the card into play.

It would just be an option. In combination, the You Win & Exchange is too powerful. If the only way to defeat that is for another player to buy one card, that's not very strategic because it's about luck (when that card comes up).

The Destroyer slows the game down to a point of not being fun. If one card can alter everyone else's strategy, it's too powerful. No one suggested that whoever has it wins all the time. But I would be interested in the statistics of wins for that one card. It certainly alters the game significantly.

Again, it would just be an option to remove those cards. Thanks for considering.

Collecting statistics for both of these cards could be interesting. Move number / game progression point where they were bought, and whether or not they resulted in a win.

The lose points card came up two games in a row for my friends tonight. The reason it is too powerful is that it is a sector 7 card, and 7 comes up statistically more often than any other number. We would love the option to exclude this card.

I agree with Shazzypaz on this one. My friends and I initially had the same feelings about the lose points card, especially with it being on the 7, but after playing for awhile, we realize it's not that overpowered. We've gone many games where it did not determine the winner - anecdotally it wins less than a 1/3 of the time (I'd like to see those stats as well, Shazzypaz). You just need to adjust your strats. Colony buying isn't the best if that card keeps hitting - you need to deploy rockets, etc. Same goes for You Win. Change the strats. Watch what others are doing, and sometimes, you need to take a hit (buy a card you don't want) for the group.

I say leave well enough alone. Where does it end? There are other really powerful cards depending on the situation. Short of starting a new feature request, I'd rather see some of the expansions included (Dreadnaught, Biodome) as a selectable setup choice, using the entire pack and not cherry picking, rather than a feature to exclude certain cards.

my $0.02

Please see this game as an example of why this card should be optional: table=345490378. It took 43 minutes. All colony cards were purchased. One player lost 69 points. It was not fun. And it wasn't even the person with the Destroyer who won. It was just an awful, painfully slow, unfun game.

Re: the statistics, it would be interesting to see. It might be difficult to analyze when the Destroyer determines the winner (rather than when the person who has it wins). Both would be interesting to see.

There are 36 level 3 ship cards. If the Destroyer is determining the winner more than 1/36 of the time then it's too powerful.

Re: "where does it end", it ends with the two cards that people want to be optional. I have not heard from anyone else that there are other cards that people think are two powerful.

@treek: I kind of like NuncaNancy's strategy of combining the "place a charge" cards with the Destroyer card. One thing you learn after playing against the Destroyer card a few times is that you need to plan for a different game. Buying the colony cards too early in a game with Destroyer means you aren't prepared for a longer game, since the colony cards take away some of your rewards for your own dice rolls.

Changing status from Acknowledged to Inforequest since I am not yet agreeing that this is a good suggestion.

Seems a reasonable request to me. There are other games that have optional cards that were originally standard (notably Lords in Kingdom Builder). People that like these cards in play can continue to play with them, this should be the default option.

After playing many, many more games of Space Base I no longer consider either of these cards unreasonably powerful. I am frustrated when the luck of the dice undoes all of my careful work and I lose, but this is a game with dice. Luck is involved. If the option to remove one or both of these ships was offered I would not personally choose it, but I also would happily play in such a game.

How would it hurt the game to offer the option?

I do dislike the negative points card.
Both because it's a bit OP and because it can significantly increase the game length.

I have never seen anyone win with the "You win" card.
I once was close and I enjoy the fact that this card can give a glimmer of hope in a game where you could not setup a proper engine.

Just to add in agreement with others, it's the only direct pvp card in the game with the only defence to buy it before someone else can. In my friend group we always agree to not play it. Which then locks up a slot in the 3rd tier.
What is the harm of adding an option?

Adding an option would require approval from the game designer and publisher. This is not a priority at the moment. Priority is the many bugs left behind by the original developer who abandoned this game.

I feel like the 3 planet 7 and the 1 planet 4 are way more overpowered overall. My opinion though.

Neither card is 'overpowered'. You may not like them because the one is the only negative in the game and the other is a short-circuit that can hit you out of the blue by anyone incompetent to build a real engine (or clever enough to combine it with other place-cube or swap cards). That doesn't mean it's overpowered.

In terms of power, there are other cards which are more 'powerful' - ie. have a bigger/more frequent effect on the outcome of games than either of these cards.

I can't say that I personally like either of the cards, especially when used against me, but that's not a reason to take them out of the game.

Shazzypaz, I am also in a camp have option for THE -4/-3 point card. Now referred as THE or THAT card.

Reasoning : It is imho stupidly strong in 4/5 ply games where you can have it as red card. I've had a long time since my probability math/statistics studies but, chance of NOT getting 7 (ignoring all counters like roller can chance number(s) but also ignoring player having THE card can alter rolls of sums of 6, 5, .. into 7) is 5/6. This because getting 7 with 2 dice is exactly 1/6. And chance for counter effect is 1-1/6 = 5/6. Sorry for all english math students, I have never studied maths in english. I know my math vocabulary is lacking. :/

So chances in (situation where THAT card is on red row) is activated on you turn is by : number of players | Chance:

#players | chance
2 | 17% (1 - 1* (5/6) )
3 | 31% (1 - 2* (5/6) )
4 | 43% (1 - 3* (5/6) )
5 | 52 % (1 - 4 * (5/6) )

Well, tbh I haven't seen almost anyone playing this game with full 5 players, I do not recommend myself. (hint: sweet spot is 3 players). But there are still 2 arguments to be made to say why this card is not the best option to be in game or alternative why pacifists should have "pls, no" -option for THE card.

1) On 2 players percentage is so low and it is more of a game state that determines should or not you try it. Already on 3 players you lose much more control, there are card available to buy before you can react and still having 31% chance on RED side to activate ( you have better but not totally full control if that can happen.) Personally I do not like these odds, I do not find them fun.
2) This card works solo. It doesn't need any other cards (like "you win"-card, which I love as an alternative win condition.) Those need prework. Actually, if you can think your strategy around THIS card, it makes experience worse IMHO for all other players. They can only try to avoid it at all cost, and there is no bulletproof way (except : you can maybe(?) have 2 cards : "choose a number for a die" .. but that is hardly the usual way. Those need to be refueled before THIS BAD, BAD, ************* CARD).

@ydajacobs
"I can't say that I personally like either of the cards, especially when used against me, but that's not a reason to take them out of the game."

I usually don't like to alter games or rules of any games in any way. This card for reasons given above why I do not follow my usual rules in this cards case.

There is now an option for removing the GORDON 7981-G card (lose 3/4 points). I don't currently plan to include an option for removing the You Win card.

Thank you

The settings for specifying whether you're ok with joining games where the card has been removed is confusing... Which is which?

@yodajacobs: Could you explain more about what is confusing? I just looked at the settings selections for joining games and it looked ok to me. Maybe it's just a matter of getting used to it?

"Adding an option would require approval from the game designer and publisher." Someone said that the designer and publisher did not approve this change. Is this true?

shhh...
Some things should remain unsaid.

The designer and publisher did indeed approve this change.

Please make it an option to remove the "Instant Win" #12 Card. The original ask suggested that this card be excluded, but when setting up the game that is not yet an option.

Please review this in the detailed description above. This suggestion has NOT been implemented yet, and would greatly improve the gaming experience. Thanks so much!!!

Yeah, it's fine the way it is now.
A win with the win card is very rare and its presence adds to the tension.
The minus VP card however really was annoying and made some games drag on.