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四季物语的案件

#506: "Shield of syra + Syllas the faithful = no crystals"

open: 漏洞尚未被修复

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四季物语 #7757197

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#	Status	Votes	Game	Type	Title	Last update

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2014年Mar14日 20:47 • Rosen • 漏洞尚未被修复:

2014年Mar14日 20:55 • Rosen • 漏洞尚未被修复:

The game consisted of 3 players, I was the last player to get a prompt tu use the shield of Syra. The player beforeme did not had a shield of Syra but for some reason was prompted to use one.

2014年Jul18日 18:45 • tilo83 • 漏洞尚未被修复:

+1 i don t have 10 crystals :(

2015年Apr29日 23:39 • grayone • 漏洞尚未被修复:

Table #13509392 Move #44

alphagor summons a Syllas the Faithful for YYY

Syllas the Faithful: grayone sacrifices Shield of Zira

I remain at 1 crystal instead of 11

2015年Sep5日 14:54 • Edna von Matterhorn • 漏洞尚未被修复:

Move 65:
u0110009 invoque Syllas le fidèle pour
Move 66:
Syllas le fidèle : copyt sacrifie Dé de la malice
Move 67:
Syllas le fidèle : Edna von Matterhorn sacrifie Bouclier de Zira
Move 68:
Edna von Matterhorn est maintenant premier joueur
Le marqueur saison avance de 2 case(s)

2015年Oct1日 07:45 • Mrs Dress A H • 漏洞尚未被修复:

FIXED

You have Io's Mimion.

2018年Aug25日 05:56 • Usay Dress A H • 漏洞尚未被修复:

You should have clicked on the "Sacrifice Shield Of Zira" button instead of the card.

2019年May1日 01:44 • OrcBobsledTeam • 漏洞尚未被修复:

This happened to me as well.
1.boardgamearena.com/1/seasons?table=51135947

The UI shouldn't let you sacrifice the shield without gaining the 10 crystals.

2019年May1日 13:21 • diamant • 漏洞尚未被修复:

About 01/05/2019 - 01:44 • OrcBobsledTeam :

You cannot apply the effect of a card which is not in play. When you sacrifice the Shield of Zira, it is an effect from Syllas the Faithful, not from the Shield of Zira. After that, the Shield of Zira is no longer in play, so you cannot get any benefit from this card, like the 10 crystals.

You get the 10 crystals only when you apply the effect of the Shield of Zira, that is when :
- your Shield of Zira is IN PLAY ;
- you have to discard or sacrifice ANOTHER card (maybe a second Shield of Zira) ;
- you choose to sacrifice the Shield of Zira INSTEAD this other card.

Therefore, if you have to sacrifice a card from the effect of an opponent card, it is not cunning to directly sacrifice a Shield of Zira when you can choose another card.

2019年Dec22日 14:41 • houdou • 漏洞尚未被修复:

1P：ジラの盾のみ出す
2P：イオリスの像を出す
2P：精霊のアミュレットを出し、炎トークンで「信心深きサイラス」を獲得。そのまま出す
1P：ジラの盾を生贄に選択もクリスタルを得られず

2020年Aug22日 00:25 • Usay Dress A H • 漏洞尚未被修复:

Translation of recent comment: (Probably not accurate)
1P: Play Shield Of Zira
2P: Play Statue Of Eolis
2P: Play Syllas The Faithful
1P: No crystal for Sacrifice Shield Of Zira

2020年Dec10日 06:03 • HeartsKing • 漏洞尚未被修复:

I think a warning should be given that one will not get the 10 points if they click on the Shield card instead of clicking the "Sacrifice Shield Of Zira" button. It's such an obscure rule, but can have a negative affect with players from the confusion and someone seemingly wronged by not getting 10 points.

2021年Jan8日 23:24 • mgrittle • 漏洞尚未被修复:

My first card was zira, he played sylas as his first card. I did not receive any crystals when i sacrificed zira

2021年May18日 21:05 • terraforming • 漏洞尚未被修复:

Happened again at table 173450196.

There was no button to use the shield of zira. When I clicked on the shield itself, it gave me no points. Later in the game I got a second shield which did offer a button.

The rulebook says: "The effect of the Shield of Zira can be used to protect against the effect of a Power card (belonging to yourself (or an opponent) or an enchantment that would otherwise force you to discard or sacrifice one of your Power cards". So as long as Shield of Zira is in play and you can sacrifice it, you should be able to do it. Everything else should not matter (like the number of cards you have in play).

2021年May18日 23:17 • diamant • 漏洞尚未被修复:

@terraforming: At table #173450196, move #96, you cannot use the effect of the shield of Zira, because you have only this card in play, so this card is targeted by Syllas and cannot protect itself.

However, there is something wrong in the messages on top of the playing area (review the game to see them in english):

Move #94: "Syllas le fidèle : tree10401 doit sacrifier une carte (ou utiliser votre Bouclier de Zira)"
Move #95: "Syllas le fidèle : zebratron doit sacrifier une carte (ou utiliser votre Bouclier de Zira)"
Move #96: "Syllas le fidèle : Vous devez sacrifier une carte (ou utiliser votre Bouclier de Zira)"

Of course, your opponents cannot activate your shield of Zira!

2021年May19日 12:07 • terraforming • 漏洞尚未被修复:

>you cannot use the effect of the shield of Zira, because you have only this card in play, so this card is targeted by Syllas and cannot protect itself

Sylas does not target. It says "each opponent sacrifices a power card". So, it's "an effect of a power card (belonging to an opponent) that would force me to sacrifice one of my power cards" - exactly as the rulebook says for the Shield of Zira. The rulebook clearly says that the Shield protects against that kind of effect. As written, the protection triggers even before you choose what to sacrifice and it does not matter if you have any other cards or not.

Also it's irrelevant if Sylas targets or not. Protection of the Shield should apply as well if an opponent targets your Shield with Crystal Titan's activation, for example, as it's again "effect that would force to sacrifice one of my cards".

2021年May19日 13:36 • diamant • 漏洞尚未被修复:

@terraforming: I agree that Syllas does not target Power cards in the strict sense of the word, but if a player has only one Power card in play, it is this card that the player will have to sacrifice. That’s what I wanted to say.

I recalled the rules for using the Zira Shield effect in my previous comment of May 1, 2019. My understanding of the text of this card, in English, or in French (I have the Enchanted Kingdom extension of the French edition) leads me to conclude, just as the developer did, that the effect of the Shield of Zira can only be applied in case of discard or sacrifice of another card.

Another indication that this interpretation is correct is found in FAQ v. 3 of the Enchanted Kingdom extension, which I only have in French. Here is an excerpt:

"Q : Un Bouclier de Zira peut-il servir à protéger le sacrifice d’un autre Bouclier de Zira ?
R : Oui. Vous gagnerez 20 cristaux."

Indeed, if the Shield of Zira could protect itself, what would be the relevance of questioning the possibility of preventing the sacrifice of another Shield of Zira?

2021年May19日 15:53 • terraforming • 漏洞尚未被修复:

>what would be the relevance of questioning the possibility of preventing the sacrifice of another Shield of Zira

Sounds like a situation where you have two Shield of Zira, then, when asked to sacrifice a card, replace it with first Shield effect, protect it with the second Shield (sacrificing that second one), and receive crystals for both. How does that work on BGA, by the way? Will you receive crystals for both?

However, the rules for Seasons just fail to be exact enough in that case, and in many others.

2021年May25日 14:02 • diamant • 漏洞尚未被修复:

@terraforming:
Here’s how I understand the rules of Seasons when a player has 2 Shield of Zira in play and has to sacrifice a Power card because an opponent has just summoned Syllas the Faithful:

a) the player has more than 2 cards in play; he chooses to sacrifice a card in play that is not a Shield of Zira, which allows him to use the effect of a first Shield of Zira, but as this effect involves a sacrifice, he can then use the effect of his second Shield of Zira. Balance: he gained 20 crystals, having discarded only one card, a Shield of Zira.

b) the player has exactly 2 Shield of Zira; therefore, he chooses to sacrifice a Shield of Zira (whose effect he cannot use, since the card does not protect itself), he can then use the effect of his second Shield of Zira. Balance: he gained 10 crystals, having discarded only one card, a Shield of Zira.

I do not have game references with a game sequence corresponding to one of these 2 infrequent cases, but it seems to me that the implementation behaves as I described it.

I also draw attention to the fact that each sacrifice involved in the sequences described must be feasible.
If an opponent has a Crystal Titan in play, the player must first pay the 3 crystals for the sacrifice of the Power card initially chosen. Only then, the player can activate a Shield of Zira, provided that he still has 3 crystals prior to the sacrifice of the Shield (if the Shield of Zira cannot be sacrificed, it cannot be activated).

2021年May30日 00:47 • jrr • 漏洞尚未被修复:

Shield of Zira's text on the card itself clearly says "instead." You cannot sacrifice Shield of Zira instead of sacrificing the same Shield of Zira.

Even looking at the appendix errata being referenced, it says Shield is "used to protect against the effect..." "Protect" refers to the other card it's being used instead of. Something cannot protect itself from being sacrificed by being sacrificed, and getting 10 pts for it isn't protection either.

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#506: "Shield of syra + Syllas the faithful = no crystals"

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